The Viral Rejection Letter: Unexpected Inspiration on the Job Hunt

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Santiago:

Welcome to another episode of the Loop It In podcast. I'm Santiago Marino, and today's guest is Netali Peles, the Chief People Officer here at DoorLoop. Thank you for joining us, Netali, and welcome to the show.

Netali:

Thank you. It's great to be here.

Santiago:

Today we're talking about something that basically everyone is pretty much familiar with, which is rejection letters. Whether it is applying for a dream job or for school, I'm pretty sure ...

Netali:

Text message from an ex.

Santiago:

Ex, right? For love.

Netali:

Yeah.

Santiago:

I'm pretty sure we've all gotten some sort of rejection letter at one point or another. But today, we're not just talking about any rejection letter. We're talking about DoorLoop's rejection letter that has actually gone viral on social media. And pretty excited about that, right?

Netali:

Yeah.

Santiago:

What do you think?

Netali:

It's pretty cool. The first thing in my life that's related to me that's gone viral, so definitely a cool experience.

Santiago:

All right. Amazing. Yeah. First of many. Yeah. And there's actually quite a few articles about it, but today, we're going to mention three of them.

There is one that was written by UNILAD, in which they mentioned that the writer of this first article actually took a screenshot of the letter and it was posted to the Reddit forum Anti-Work by the user who goes by the name of SIP-BOSS. And the captioning of the post on Reddit said something like this. "There's a rejection letter for you. It's full of hope ... Rather inspiring." And it seems like that's what most people get out of it. They seem to be inspired from this letter.

Netali:

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I thought that was a great caption, but I was told that he was actually being sarcastic. But yeah, a lot of the comments said, yeah, this is actually an inspiring, hopeful, rejection letter, so.

Santiago:

Right, right. Yeah, no, I agree. It seems like other people got another message, which is what we're going to jump into next. But before we do that, I'm going to quickly go over the letter so people who are not very familiar with what it said can get an idea, but here's basically the main paragraph. It says something like: Thank you for investing your time and effort with DoorLoop. You're obviously extremely talented and we're honored that you considered us. Although it was not an easy decision for us, as we were impressed by your experience, we decided to go in another direction for this role. We'd like to leave you with these reminders.

And then there's three bullet points.

First one says, Walt Disney was fired because his editor said he lacked imagination and had no good ideas. And the next one says, Elon Musk was rejected from a number of emerging tech companies, including Netscape. And the last one says, Michael Jordan was cut from his high school varsity team. All of them turned setbacks into success stories. We try to do the same at DoorLoop and encourage you to do the same. Wishing you only the best of luck on your future endeavors.

And I like this part. It says: PS. If you have a moment, would love if you could give us some feedback of our process and how we can improve.

I think that's very nice to ask people for that, kind of letting them know that we know we're not perfect.

Netali:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Santiago:

But yeah. So those three bullet points, I think are amazing, are beautiful. I understand now we're changing them a little bit. We're also adding different names of other people as well.

Netali:

Well, we had a lot of the feedback. Apparently some people have an issue with Elon Musk, which I wasn't aware of. Some people said as a woman, it would be nice to see other women who have faced setbacks. So yeah, we're working with that a bit. And we always change this rejection. It's always a work in process. It's never the same. We're always updating it and changing it, so you'll never always see just those three characters.

Santiago:

Got it. Got it. So I guess these are the ones that were in that screenshot-

Netali:

Exactly-

Santiago:

... that was posted on Reddit.

Netali:

Yeah, yeah.

Santiago:

But there's different ones. Got it.

And yeah, a little bit more about the post. It has received close to a thousand comments on Reddit, and it has been upvoted over 12,000 times, so that's impressive.

Netali:

Yeah.

Santiago:

Amazing. Good job.

Netali:

Agreed.

Santiago:

Congrats. And it also says that there's a dividing opinion on the social media platform. And I think some people may be wondering why is it a dividing opinion? And I think this next article that was written by yourtango.com kind of goes a little bit into that. They say that the job rejection letter leaves applicants with hopeful reminders, but people have a mixed response. And here, I guess one of those persons who has mixed feelings about it, they ask why would it risk, it being DoorLoop, why would it risk not hiring them as they could be the next Michael Jordan?

Netali:

Yeah. It's a valid point.

Santiago:

It's a pretty good point.

Netali:

It's a pretty good point, yeah. Agreed.

Santiago:

Right? And I like another one from another article from scoop.upworthy.com. They mention they understand success, and now you will find it elsewhere. And then just end it with one more, which says also from scoop.upworthy. This email is fine. Having a little more humanity in the workplace is what we want. Want in upper case. Said user RedPayaso1. And I quote, "It's much better than the standard of never calling you back or just saying they picked up someone better."

So I guess here we have a little bit of both feelings, people that were like, "Why didn't you hire them if there could be the next Michael Jordan?"

Netali:

Yeah.

Santiago:

What do you have to say to that person?

Netali:

Well, I guess obviously, if we are seeing someone who could be the next Michael Jordan, then that may be not the case. I think what the email was trying to say is that some of the most successful people when they got a setback, they used that as a motivator. And that's really what DoorLoop, our company is all about as well. We learn from our mistakes and we learn quickly, and we make mistakes a lot. So that's our whole culture, and it starts right from the beginning, from our interview process.

We're trying to remind candidates, listen, you're obviously great enough that you made it to this point, and that we are having a conversation. Just because there's not a good fit for you here, we want you to go find the best place for you. It's not with us. We've determined that. We know what we're looking for, but go ahead and find it because you are a talented individual.

Santiago:

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. It's actually what I thought as well. That it's not a linear thing, Michael Jordan or not, but more we all go through setbacks.

Netali:

Yeah, exactly.

Santiago:

And don't give up.

Netali:

Exactly.

Santiago:

Keep going. Yeah, it's kind of like the same idea that I got, and at least another 12,000 people seemed to agree with that. Yeah. So that's amazing.

Now, I wanted to ask you. When you have a candidate, how do you go about tailoring a rejection letter when there's specific reasons why that candidate was not chosen? Do you mention the reasons or more broad?

Netali:

Well, it depends on what part of the interview process they're in, but we always want people to know, yeah, you weren't selected, but you were not selected because of whatever the reason may be. Whether it's you were up against a lot of candidates and we found a better match, or you live too far from the office, or you mentioned that you don't want to commute to the office every day and we do require this to be an in-person position.

Santiago:

Got it.

Netali:

So yeah, we go through every rejection letter and every candidate. So while the basis of their rejection letter may be similar for many candidates, everyone is different.

Santiago:

Got it. That makes sense.

I want to ask you, is there any particular technique that we use? Clearly, sharing some inspirational quotes and stories, I think is a great way to soften the impact of the rejection letter. Do we have any other techniques to soften the impact of that rejection letter that we use?

Netali:

Yeah, just first of all, we keep it personal. So every candidate is individual and goes through a different process, takes a different assessment, and just remind the candidate that first of all, we're honored that they considered us and that they're interested in the position. It's okay if it's not a good fit, and we're not going to move forward, and kind of say, but these are the next steps, whether it's we are wishing you luck in your future endeavors, or we'll contact you again if something opens up in the future.

Santiago:

Great. And I'm really glad you mentioned that because from a personal experience, I was telling you, I got that email saying, "We'll keep you in our roster," and ...

Netali:

Yeah, we have something called our talent pool for candidates that we like. There may be something here and maybe we don't have a position open for this person right now. We keep them in a separate file, that's the talent pool, and when new positions open up, we'll contact those candidates again. So I'm glad to hear that that's what happened with you and that you kept us as an option for you.

Santiago:

I did. Thank you. And when I got that email, I was like, "Oh man. But everything went so well in the interview. What happened?" Which I think is probably what a lot of people think when they get a rejection letter or any kind of email like that. And when I got that second email months later, I was like, "Really? No way. I'll do it."

Netali:

That's great. I'm happy.

Santiago:

Yeah. No, totally, super happy. Oh, here's something I wanted to ask. How do you handle the rejection letters for candidates who made it to the final rounds?

Netali:

Oh yeah.

Santiago:

Do you do that a little bit differently or ... ?

Netali:

That's obviously always a much more difficult situation because you really get to know the person better, but it depends. Usually it won't just be an email. We'll pick up the phone and we'll have a phone call.

Santiago:

Got it.

Netali:

If they came into the office, and definitely it will be a phone call. But yeah, we let the candidate know they can contact us at any time for more information, any questions.

Santiago:

Got it.

Netali:

We try to be as specific as possible.

Santiago:

Awesome. Yeah, and that makes sense because I read a couple of other comments that said a phone call would be nice, and I can see-

Netali:

Yeah. And of course, we're not able to. We have thousands of applicants and we're not able to call every single one. But when we can and we think it's warranted, then we absolutely do make phone calls.

Santiago:

Right. And that makes sense for someone who made it to the final rounds where there's more of a relationship.

Netali:

Exactly.

Santiago:

You go more than the email. Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah, that brings me to another question. How do you handle the volume? Because we were talking the other day that we get here thousands of applications.

Netali:

Right.

Santiago:

What's the trick? Because I can't even imagine ...

Netali:

A lot of hard work, time. We have a team in our recruiter department, and they will sit and they go through every candidate and every email and write them a personal email. It takes time. So we don't want to keep candidates waiting for a long time, but sometimes if there's a delay, it is because there's a lot of volume, but we got to put in the hours and make sure we get back to every single person.

Santiago:

Wow, that's amazing. And I know we went over the numbers, but just so I get another idea, what are we looking at for someone for support? How many applicants do you get normally for one role that's available?

Netali:

Sure. For example, for a support position, I would say in a week we get about anywhere from 50 to 80 applicants in a week.

Santiago:

And the role is open for about how many weeks?

Netali:

A few months. It could be open for even for six months if we keep hiring and if we have a few positions open, but at least a few months because we really vet every candidate, and it takes time to compare different candidates and really get to know the person and make sure they are a good fit.

Santiago:

Got it.

Netali:

So we tell people our process is maybe a little bit more intense than what you're used to, a little bit more thorough, but everybody who's here went through the same process and there's a reason for it. And the reason is we really want to make sure that we are creating a good match. It's important both for the company, but also for the employee that they found the place where they should be.

Santiago:

Yeah, I agree. It saves everyone time.

Netali:

Absolutely.

Santiago:

Because yeah, a lot of companies sometimes show something they're really not, and then a week later the new hire never comes back.

Netali:

Exactly.

Santiago:

Because they weren't really clear. Awesome. And do you often get a lot of candidates that request feedback as far as tell me what went wrong and how do you handle that?

Netali:

Yes. Not always, but a good amount of candidates, once they get their rejection letter, there's always a good percentage that respond. "Okay, thanks for letting me know. And sometimes thanks for letting me know, but can you give me some more feedback as to why I was not selected?"

Santiago:

And normally you follow that up with an email, phone call, or depends?

Netali:

Always. And I always tell candidates, "I appreciate you asking. Good for you for wanting to know so that you can do better the next time." Maybe you'll get a tip that they did something that's easily fixable that they'll know not to do for their next interview.

Santiago:

Right. Yeah. Like 100% show up on time I'm sure.

Netali:

Right. It could be something that they didn't even realize that that's easily fixable. And if they're the kind of person that's learns from their mistakes and fix it, then they deserve to know. Or sometimes, and maybe said, "Listen, it's because of a reason that it's just the way it is. It's nothing you can really change. And that's okay." And that also just gives them closure. "Okay, I get it. That makes sense. Thanks for letting me know. Now I can move on and understand."

Santiago:

Nice. Yeah. That's really smart for someone to do during their job hunt so they can adjust as they go.

Netali:

Yes. No, asking for feedback is again a part of DoorLoop's culture. So in the interview process, that's where it starts. And when people ask for feedback, for us it's always good for you and something ... an admirable quality.

Santiago:

I agree. I agree. Which is why I love the fact that in their rejection letter, even DoorLoop asks for feedback.

Netali:

Yeah, exactly.

Santiago:

Hey, how can we make it better?

Netali:

And that's actually a new edition. We've only had that in the last, I would say two months. It's a survey we created because we exactly like you said, we want to get feedback. What are we doing right? How was the person you spoke to in the Zoom? Were they friendly? Did they answer your questions correctly? Did you like the assessments that we give you? Were they enjoyable or was it a waste of your time? We always want to do better and make the process as good as it can be from the beginning to the end.

Santiago:

Got it. Makes sense. Thanks for that-

Netali:

Which is why the fact that the post went viral was actually great because we got all this feedback.

Santiago:

Good point. Thousands-

Netali:

Yeah. Good and bad of what people thought of our rejection letter.

Santiago:

Yeah. Yeah. Let's keep getting feedback like that.

Netali:

Exactly. Yeah.

Santiago:

In the tenths of thousands. Amazing.

That brings me to another point. What methods do you employ to foster a positive company culture and ensure employee engagement in a startup setting like this one?

Netali:

And this, you're talking about after the candidate is already working at DoorLoop?

Santiago:

Right. Yeah, sorry.

Netali:

Oh yeah.

Santiago:

So once you recruit the team, the ideal team, the ideal candidate, how do you foster company culture?

Netali:

Oh, yeah, that's a great question. And I think I mentioned before, it starts from the very first contact you have with DoorLoop. So that's going to start with our job posting. So the words that we choose to put in the job posting, the photos that we have online of our company and our culture showing the people that work here and the kind of activities we do outside of work. And then continues through the interview process where we want to make sure we are responding to every candidate, getting back to them, whether it's a yes or a no or these are the next steps.

Once they are given an offer, we send them a welcome video from the whole team. On their first day, they're going to get a very warm welcome from the company. We make sure everyone in the company knows, "Hey, this is so-and-so. This is their first day. Make them feel welcome."

Santiago:

Right. Yeah.

Netali:

And they'll get a checklist and paired up with buddies who will take them to lunch when they're-

Santiago:

Right, your onboarding buddy.

Netali:

Yeah, exactly. Will take them and they'll go to lunch with their manager on the first day.

Santiago:

Oh, nice.

Netali:

And then throughout working at DoorLoop, we incorporate events. And whatever the events are, we ask, we call them Loopers, our employees, what do you guys want to do? Do you guys like baseball? Do you guys like sports? Do you guys feel like doing yoga? Do you want bagels and coffee or do you prefer fruit and eggs? So we try to incorporate a lot of fun events outside of work or even during the workday, during breaks. And we try to foster a community of helping each other, asking questions, giving feedback, and progressing together as a team.

Santiago:

Amazing. Yeah, I can testify to that. I've been to a baseball game, yoga class.

Netali:

There you go.

Santiago:

Yeah. Also, my first day I remember there was a shirt and a hat ready for me with a key chain, so I felt pretty special. A laptop.

Netali:

A laptop.

Santiago:

It was really nice, yeah. I remember I used to think that it was a simulation. I couldn't believe it. I was like, "This is too good to be true."

Netali:

Too Good to be true. But it is. It is true, and ...

Santiago:

Yeah, it's amazing.

Netali:

And we hope to only, to continue that and just to improve.

Santiago:

Yeah. Amazing. It's really been a great experience working at this company.

I wanted to ask you. Are there any particular key elements that you make sure that you include in all rejection letters, regardless of whether is the beginning of the process or some of the final candidates? What are some of those?

Netali:

Yeah. So I would say the rejection letter is broken up into four prepositions, more or less. Number one, first you thank the candidate. We want to make sure that candidates know thank you for the interest in us. That alone, we are on it. You considered us. There's a lot of companies out there, a lot of jobs, but you picked us. So we are thankful for that.

And then number two, we try to get to the point quickly. Just we are not moving forward because of X reason, or we are moving forward.

And then the third section is giving the reason, like I said, because of that.

And then finally closing with the next step for them, which is maybe there is no next step, this is the end of the road for us, or, "Hey, we did see some potential here, so we're going to put you in our talent pool. Please keep an eye out for any future job openings and we'll contact you."

Santiago:

Got it. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah, people keep an eye out. Not just in this company. Because what I told my younger sister, I was like, "Listen, after I started working for this company, I realized there's actually amazing companies out there. Don't settle for one of those-

Netali:

Never settle-

Santiago:

... old school companies that ... Yeah, exactly.

Netali:

Yeah. That's our recruiter motto, never settle.

Santiago:

Seriously. And that's what I would love to tell anyone listening to this podcast, don't settle. There are companies out there. This is one of them.

Netali:

This is one of them. But it goes both ways. We want to make sure that you are our dream candidate, our dream employee, and we're so excited to work with you. But if you don't feel the same way about us, and if we don't check every single one of your boxes, then that's okay. There's many fish in the sea. Interviewing candidates and recruiting is very much like dating.

Santiago:

Difficult.

Netali:

Find your fit. Never settle.

Santiago:

Good point. Good point. Yeah. There's-

Netali:

And difficult, yeah. You might get rejected.

Santiago:

You might get rejected.

Netali:

But don't lose hope.

Santiago:

Via text, via email, sometimes a phone call it's nice.

Netali:

Yeah.

Santiago:

But yeah, I agree. Everyone's been rejected before. It's all part of their process.

Netali:

And also, you also always want to leave the door open because like I said, just because there's no good fit right now, if you match the company culture maybe in a few months, which is exactly what happened to you.

Santiago:

Absolutely. Absolutely. So don't give up if you get that email, don't reply with some hate words.

Netali:

Yeah. Don't be nasty-

Santiago:

Don't be nasty. Don't-

Netali:

... and react in a bad way because you want to make sure you leave the door open.

Santiago:

Keep it professional. Yeah. It can be difficult in those emotional moments where sometimes our body just wants to react or our ego has be like ...

Netali:

Yes. Yeah.

Santiago:

But yeah, you have to control those impulses and be professional. Awesome. Just a couple of last few things. Are there any strategies that you use to attract and retain top talent?

Netali:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, we've been very lucky that we have a great Glassdoor score. And we've seen that Glassdoor attracts really good candidates because people looking for jobs, they want to work in a company that has a great culture. And when people that currently work there, that's the best testament. What do people who work there now, how do they feel?

Luckily we have a really high score in Glassdoor, and that's attracted a lot of good candidates. But things that we do and strategies that we take is mostly employee referrals. We've noticed that talent attracts talent. A players attracts A players. So we tell all our employees, we encourage them, when you meet someone amazing and you probably interact with other amazing people or you know some great people, tell them to apply to DoorLoop, tell them about these positions, and what, they get rewarded. They get a pretty nice payback if somebody does end up working at the company. Even the moment they refer them, whether we end up hiring them or not.

Santiago:

Oh really?

Netali:

Yeah, they'll get a nice gift card. And then if that person stays with us for three months or something-

Santiago:

Three months-

Netali:

... they'll get a very nice little bonus.

Santiago:

Oh, nice. Amazing.

Netali:

We do that.

And we also, word of mouth is important and we attend. We do some community events. So we're involved in the community. We'll go out and do 5ks together or volunteering, or one of our founders or managers will go speak at an organization and that gets the word out about the company and that there's postings available.

Santiago:

Got it. Amazing. Yeah. One thing that also helped me a lot was, yeah, social media. I was like, "All right, let's look them up." Found the podcast, listened to every episode, found the TikTok, watch everything.

Netali:

Great.

Santiago:

I basically did my homework, which I think it only did me well because I was more prepared and ...

Netali:

Exactly. Yeah.

Santiago:

I knew what to expect and, yeah.

Netali:

Yeah. We have a good, that's another point I didn't mention, our social media presence that attracts good candidates as well.

Santiago:

Yeah, 100%. Because you really get to see behind ...

Netali:

Behind the scenes.

Santiago:

Behind the scenes and how it's done and the employees. Do they seem happy?

Netali:

Yes.

Santiago:

Because that for me has always been a big thing. When I start working somewhere and I look around and I see people are not very happy and I'm like, "So if I work six more months, I'm going to get your job and you're clearly not happy, so why am I here?"

Netali:

Yeah, exactly.

Santiago:

But yeah. If you see people are enjoying themselves, and I think that's the best 'cause I also think that that's when people work at their highest potential.

Netali:

When they're happiest of course. Yeah. Yes.

Santiago:

When they do something because they want to, not because they're forced to do it.

Netali:

Definitely. Definitely.

Santiago:

Awesome. So yes. One last thing that I think if there's anyone who is interviewing for DoorLoop anytime soon and is listening to this podcast, is there a tip? Is there anything we could tell these potential DoorLoop members or employees? Is there anything we can tell them to better prepare for their interview with DoorLoop? What are some tips we could give them?

Netali:

Sure. So I would say, first of all, bring your whole true self to the interview. Sometimes the interview process can feel a bit like a show because people maybe are trying to be someone they're not because they're trying to impress.

Santiago:

Right.

Netali:

That never works, never. We are real people here. We are down to earth and we just want to see that. We want to see who are you really? What's your DNA? What were you like when you were eight years old? What are you passionate about? And does that passion translate into whatever job position you're applying for? So find out what is the job position, make sure you know what you're going to be doing so that you can come in and tell us. I would be great at this and I'm going to love it, and these are the reasons why, and it's because of who I am.

Santiago:

Got it.

Netali:

And then the other thing I would say is just honesty and integrity, which just kind of ties into that. Be honest, tell the truth. We don't care if you've made mistakes in the past, if you've been fired from your previous company. That's okay. I'd rather you tell me I was fired. I don't want to hear that you left or whatever, and then call your reference and find out actually I was fired. Then it's just like, well, this is not a trustworthy person.

Santiago:

Good point.

Netali:

Like I said, it's okay to learn from mistakes and move on, but honesty is a big one.

Santiago:

Totally. Totally. All right. Thank you so much. Is there anything else that I may have left out that you would like to add before we end this?

Netali:

I don't think so. I think you covered it all and it's been a great conversation.

Santiago:

Awesome. Of course, it always is. Thank you so much for finding the time to come to the studio, and I'm really glad you're out there finding amazing people to work at DoorLoop, as well as inspiring others who may not be a good match.

Netali:

Yes.

Santiago:

I'm really glad we're out there inspiring them to find their own way to success.

Netali:

Right. Exactly.

Santiago:

Yeah. So thank you so much for sharing your perspective, and that's about it. Netali Peles, everybody.

Netali:

Thank you.

Santiago:

Thank you so much.

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